The following are notes from the legislative forum that took place at Bradford Academy in Bradford, VT on March 4, 2010.

In the interests of time, not all questions were answered by all legislators. The legislators at the meeting serve on different committees in their relative legislative bodies, so each has different areas of expertise. In general, they answered based on their personal areas of expertise.

Note:  ALL NOTES ARE PARAPHRASED, because I can’t type as fast as people speak. Thus, any inaccuracies are my fault. (From the Orange County Democrats blog)

Moderator: Brian Emerson, Wells River

Legislators:

Chip Conquest, State Rep., Wells River

Phil Winters, State Rep., Williamstown

Susan Davis, State Rep., Washington

Matt Choate, Senator, St. Johnsbury

Sarah Copeland-Hanzas, State Rep., Bradford

Opening Question:

What do you see as biggest challenges in VT in your district in the near future?

Much More Below the Fold….

Answers:

Sarah: Everybody is probably feeling the same crunch: local towns and family budgets. We’re focused on how to pass a balanced budget in the face of $150 mil in shortfalls. Easy cuts and reductions/inefficiencies have already been done. So this year, we have some really tough decisions to make. Passing a balanced budget that helps VT be sustainable in the “out years” is our biggest responsibility. I work on health care and can talk later if folks want to talk about saving dollars in health care.

Matt: We’re all worried about the budget this year. We’ve not seen a recession of this size scope and length since the great depression. We’re concerned about employment and prolonged unemployment that we’ve seen. Ag and Health care:  Families are struggling to hold onto their farms; how do we get a handle on the cost of health care while maintaining our quality?

Susan: Deals with community grant funds, etc. Looking at the whole district: health care, jobs, retraining for jobs. Many may not have the skills for the next generation of jobs in VT. Biggest across the community: health care, affects household, town, school, and state budget.

Phil: We’re all singing the same song. We all realize that the budget is probably the number one issue. It was an issue last year, it’s an issue this year, and even if we address the shortfall, we;re still looking at $100 mil short fall next year.

Chip: Property taxes. This year the school districts managed to reduce their budgets by .2% and still property taxes went up in most places. How do we make that system function going forward? We need to provide the kind of education we want for our kids, but we also need to make sure the people who pay can afford to pay for it.

Question 2:

Tell me of something you feel good/positive about in your tenure in Montpelier.

Answers:

Chip: Feel positive about most of tenure so far. Really I’m pressed that everybody over there, even though we disagree about a lot of things, everyone is doing what they think is the right thing. I can’t think of one person who’s there for personal gain. After an intense floor debate, where rhetoric gets sharp, when you leave the floor, that gets left behind. That’s been a great revelation to me.

We passed a bill that will help the Ag agency set standards or get help in understanding livestock care standards. Sure everyone familiar w/the Bushway plant issues in the islands. We’ve had a great tradition of farming, raising, and slaughtering livestock, providing food for ourselves. There are groups that would like to see that come to an end. This new council has people from all across the spectrum to bring a lot of experience and perspectives to make recommendations for agency of agriculture to determine whether statutory changes are needed. In order to make sure we’re treating animals humanely with local vermont solutions rather than having them imposed from outside.

Phil: Things can get “kinda hot” on the floor, but of the 150 people in the house, I have no problem sitting down to have a cup of coffee after the debate. Important votes in my tenure: for some, it was voting against Act 60 way back when. But if i had to say one thing, I’d say that over the years I have tried to be business friendly. Some don’t like that, but i really believe that without jobs, what have we got? So we have to be business friendly. My goal for this year is to come out of this with a balanced budget.

Susan: I listened to the folks in my district when campaigning and introduced a single-payer health care bill in the leg. I’m from a 3rd party, which is interesting, because I get to present a different view sometimes. Like shifting cost from state to local communities. I feel positive that we are interested in supporting moving the property tax system to an income based on vs current system.

Matt: 2 items: I agree that in the Senate I have not experienced a hugely partisan debate, but it’s not at the level we think of when we think of the Washington presented by the media.

Last year introduced a bill that had local impact: maple sugaring on state forest lands. This gives authority to open certain parcels of state land for sugaring. This will have a $500k impact on local economies this year, and over the next few years, could be a several million dollar impact.

Despite showboating last year, we passed a balanced budget, while keeping services intact for the worst economic times we’ve seen. We didn’t leave any one out in the dark.

Sarah: Pharmaceutical marketing bill – prescription drug pricing board of legislators from various states. SHaring ways we can save money in pharma costs. It’s one of the fastest growing health care costs. ANd health care is one of the fasted costs in country.

Limit pharma marketing to doctors. We see the tv ads for celebrex, etc. We can’t touch that, since it’s marketed toward consumers. We can curb the marketing in doctor’s offices. This marketing is 30% or more on the cost of your drugs. They market the new drugs to try to get doctors to shift prescribing patterns. Pushing the doctors toward new one that costs 10 times as much, even if it may make no difference in your care. Doctors can do their research. They don’t need to be given a fancy trip or expensive lunch by pharma reps. We banned gifts to doctors and allow only legit trips to real conferences to be paid for by pharma reps

Audience Q&A Session

Q:

Why spend time on health when we have the federal govt. coming out with a new one that will change whatever you’re doing now, and you’ll have to start over. Wouldn’t that be a waste of time?

A: Matt: We have 2 offices that help us, they research and draft our bills. Joint fiscal office does money analysis. When fed health care was announced last fall, they did analysis on what that would mean for VT, it was presented as fairly damaging to VT, because we already have good coverage for uninsured. Our state would have been damaged, and this analysis has been avail since before we convened for the session. We think something will pass, but we don’t quite know what, but we’ve had analysis of every single change. What helps us is the pilot tests for states to implement different models, so states can find best practices. No one seems ready to run ahead with one model nationwide. So, with those pilots, we’re in a good position to head along the path we’ve been on. It’s not a waste of time. We’ve assumed something will pass with waivers and pilots allowed, or it won’t pass, then we can do what we’re doing under a different path.

Q:

I’ve seen lots of money wasted on pie in the sky schemes on what we do with waste in town leading to shut down of waste handling. Have you considered ways to reign in local district committees, letting state handle this.

A: Phil: We haven’t passed much at the state level, but have passed an e-waste bill. Guidelines are being set by the legislature and will require manufacturers to take your e-waste at certain depots to take this stuff off your hands.

Q:

Isn’t state policy to get to zero waste? If so, and there isn’t a market for recyclables in US, what can VT do to create a market or deal with recyclables?

A: Sarah: None of us sits on the natural resources committee, and it would be good if we had someone with that experience. Local communities are focusing on composting, which takes much out, but if we are aiming for zero waste, then we do have to do something for the recycling stream. Nothing’s going to happen on that this year. While that sort of investment is the direction we should go, it’s not something we have money for right now.

Q:

Jobs and business friendly: creating jobs or giving a tax credit is not the answer at this point. I could hire 10 people, but they’d be sitting twiddling their thumbs. What is the state doing to help business get the customers through the door? 80% of business customers are other businesses. When is the state going to lower taxes to bring business into the state?

A: Susan: Institutions and corrections looks at dollars for binding and maintenance of assets. Building in Essex in negotiations with a solar company to bring business into the essex junction to create 400 jobs to make solar panels, hiring lad off folks from IBM and others. This means more dollars going into businesses. Every dollar paid to new employees brings customers through the doors, buying clothes and houses, etc.

A: Phil: I think over the past few years the state has done a lot to encourage businesses to expand, I do think the state has pretty much said the business will help them expand w/tax breaks, but not much thought re: where this production is going. Sales and other taxes in the state, if there’s any discussion to reduce those, I’m not aware of it.



A: Matt: Sen, Illuzzi on economic dev committee, to readdress the estate tax. The current model is a negative impact on large farms and some large businesses.  Property taxes are looking at education spending. Much is being discussed in education committee right now. There have been many reports. If we address the costs of education, we can reduce the related taxes. General fund spending last year was 2006 level. In order to take advantage of ARRA funds, we had to maintain taxes at 3 years back. The stimulus money is going away, so we need to deal with how to cope with that loss.  There is a restructuring of state govt to reduce spending on just how we do business as a state. Will take effect this year. There are efforts afoot to get spending down.

A: Susan: Sales tax is a regressive tax. I am more interested in an income tax increase instead of huge fees on small businesses or a hike in sales tax. It hits the poor, and prevents people from coming through the door.

Q:

Let’s talk about Joint resolution 33 (tolls on VT highways)

A: Phil: on transportation committee, our interstates were built with federal money and there are federal issues with putting tolls on federally-financed highways. Those with toll booths were state highways built with state money.

Q: (followup):

if we do have tolls, can we have a sticker w/VT registration so voters won’t have to pay it?

Q:

People come out for the little savings on the sales tax holiday day. When P&C closed we went down & filled our cupboards…. (asking for lower sales tax or extend free-sales tax day)

A: Sarah: In the CT river valley, we’re in different position than the rest in VT, because people can just drive across the river to not pay sales tax. We in this part of the state tend to be the champions for keeping sales tax low, or exempting things (like clothes and shoes), but we’re outnumbered. But we certainly advocate for and push for sanity and pause and “be careful” with respect to sales tax.

A: Chip: We also have to remember that sales tax reduction has to be made up somewhere else. 25% of general fund comes from sales tax, and we’ll still have to find that money somewhere else.

A: Phil: Under present setup, we transfer 107 million sales tax to education fund, which lowers property taxes.

Q:

In Lyndon on Tues local reps gave picture of fiscal problems in the state: “We’re 150 mil in debt now, will be 225 mil next year and will extend past 2014, and with closure of VT Yankee, $49 mil in direct tax payments and energy efficiency funds will be lost as well.

3 options: combo tax increases and service cuts, overhaul govt with only service cuts, or lots of taxes increased, or possibly hope for big fed money inflow.



A: Sarah: We started this yr w/150 mil hole. I don’t have projections for the out years. $38 mil this year is being filled through a bill we call the challenges for change. Asks areas of state govt to, instead of creating budgets based on last year, to throw away prior budget, ask core mission of dept, and what is absolutely needed to fulfill core mission – then eliminate the non-core elements. Through that process, which is very uncomfortable for those who have done the old process for years. If we can succeed in the areas we look at this year, we should be able to do the same in more depts and look more deeply next year. THe uncomfortable truth: we’ll pull back on services VTers rely on. Will make part of the state population more difficult. Even though it’s necessary, we need to be looking at living within our means. Need to be honest with what that means to real VTers.

A: Matt: Sarah hit the highlights. From my perspective, we have to live w/in our means. We’ve spent a fair amount of time discussing what’s best, and we are together on the fact that we’re over-stretched. Fiscal projections have assumptions built into them. There are COLA increases built in, and those don’t always materialize as expected. As far as the $150 mil, We’ve looked at $90 mil already. 2/3 of our budget = health care and education. The rest is being looked at as well. We are very much looking at living within our means without raising taxes.

A: Susan: I have not been in favor of challenges for change – after working for 31 yrs in state govt, there’s no short range or long range planning. We’re seeing the results of that lack of planning. While c for c is touted as cutting 38 mil, but I doubt we’ll actually see those savings. It’s an uncomfortable truth. I am not an economist. I know I have to pay my bills and balance my checkbook at home, but all research I’ve read I show no data that shows that raising taxes is actually detrimental when we’re in such hard times as this.

A: Phil: I can say I haven’t voted to raise a tax in 6 – 7 years. We look @ 150mil dollars, it’s a big figure, but keep in mind the total budget w/fed and state dollars, we’re talking $4,660,000 dollars. The $150 mil is not as big as you might think.

A: Chip: If we save $150 mil this year. I don’t think it’ll bee the 225 mil next year, but will instead be 100 mil. To make that true, we need to make sure that the cuts we make are ongoing ones, not short term ones. It gets to a point where you have to decide what the core, essential parts of state govt. is. If you get to that point and can’t cut any more, then you have to raise taxes to continue to support the essential core. We’re getting pretty close – into programs that some say we shouldn’t cut, but we will.

A: Susan: Challenges for change and efficiencies – we have commissioners and deputy commissioners, and highly-paid people who are supposed to plan and find efficiencies. They aren’t doing that planning. We can’t just make cuts without doing the planning. We’ll make cuts without knowing where we’re going.

Q:

Single-payer, nationally, saves costs. If we do this at state level what ware the pros and cons?

A: Matt: We have 7 bills in health and welfare. All have some variation on the theme. We have taken testimony: pro: simple admin structure, pone pot of money one payer (one entity). That payor makes all the payments. Payment is simplified. Nothing to do with cost is automatically in a single-payer bill. However cost controls can be included. Negatives: people go out of the state and come into the state for care. There must still be structure for out-of-state instances. (1% savings on one side, 30% savings on the other side) Probably both are right, and true number is somewhere in between.

If fed pilot or waiver comes in, that’s a model we could choose, but that’s not the direction we’ve gone in.

Q:

H382 – Jobs. None of these problems will go away until we get jobs in the state. Bill requires 56 hrs of paid sick time, whether business can afford it or not. I admin fed program to protect jobs if people can’t be at work. How will this help?

A: Chip: Wrote letter to chair of committee and said that while we should consider this in future, this is not the time. Asked for the bill to be withheld.

A: Sarah: The glory of our democracy is that anyone can any bill. Introduction doesn’t mean it will go anywhere. Chair of house general committee chair is very aware of the concerns. Instead of having more testimony on this bill, would like to have employees, employers, and health pros get together to propose something that will make sense.

Q: Comment re: H100, p 10, lines 10 – 14. Don’t require employers to contribute a fair share toward health care costs in VT (no question asked)

Q:

Number of bills to do something (usually reorg). how would you like to see it proceed?

A: Chip: Majority set a certain number of districts around the state, ranging from 9 to 16. There’s one that doesn’t mandate the districts, but provides incentives for districts to voluntarily join to make a larger district. Allows the districts to determine whether change would save money. Haven’t seen details on how these would save significant money. I don’t think that that’s the main part of the answer to how we’ll continue to afford education. We need to look at the hard questions: you can’t avoid the idea that we’ll have fewer teachers for the number of students.

Q:

Who is defining the core mission, and where is the info being captured? How uniformly is the vision shared across state gov?

A: Sarah: Each agency is asked to re-evaluate what  statutes require them to do. Might include agency saying we need these laws repealed because we cannot afford to regulate this or provide that. The folks at the agencies’ leaders are responsible for what the agency does. They need to work with legislature to determine what we should be doing. For example, agriculture dept. might come back & say “let agency of natural resources handle it all” and leg may or may not allow the merger. It’s not a simple blackboard drawing.



A: Susan: Commissioners and deputies coming back & forth with legislature, in this same year we’re looking for those cuts, we have a request for millions of IT infrastructure improvements. I managed the state network infrastructure, but they’re requesting without a plan or cost benefit analysis. If we want to come back with ideas, we need mission statement, how it ties to jobs, how it ties to economic development, etc.

A: Chip: This crisis is forcing me to struggle with the basic question of what are the basic core functions of state government? I don’t have a pat answer at this point, and I think that’s true of most in the state house. I imagine you’re all thinking about it, too. With the money that’s coming in, what are the things you think we shouldn’t be doing? People often think about social services when wondering what we ought to be doing, but we used to have the “overseer of the poor” in local government. It has been important to really and truly take care of people in need.

A: Matt: If I go back to the state constitution, I ran against a strict constitutionalist. Absent is what is the purpose of state government. It lays out the structure, but allows flexible government, because what the people need changes over time. We inherited

Q:

We’ve heard lots about infrastructure for a long time. What is the state doing to handle that?

A: Susan: Request for money for expanding broadband. We created telecommunications authority to look at expanding broadband. We talked about need for help in getting to the last mile, so Mrs. O’malley can get broadband. Now with fed stimulus money as a possibility, we’re talking about middle mile. It’s tied to smart grid technology, we need the middle mile to work. But the last mile was the most expensive piece. Hopefully, with this year’s legislation, we won’t forget that we’ll need to reach out to the last mile.



Q:

School board member: Gov often indicates act 60 and 68 are broken and irreparable. That being said, I do not understand how so much energy and time is being spent on the hill trying to turn the educational system on its ear, putting us out of work, and does not address the funding through property tax. It was never designed to deal with what it’s doing right now. Why aren’t we using income tax? When are you going to start dealing with the clearly broken stuff? When are 60 and 68 going to be looked at?

A: Susan: One thing I’ve been looking at. There was a tri-partisan bill a few years ago to change the school funding. Need political will, the will of you folks to talk to the political side to get them to do it.

A: Sarah: Funding education through property tax worked well when wealth and land were closely tied. VT has changed a lot in the last 200 years. Our education system is doing really well. I have 3 kids in the pub school system. We’re doing well compared to other places w/quality of education. When the big =shakedown came, a lot of people have thrown a lot of rotten tomatoes at Act 6o over the years, but it was a compromise. VTers were calling for change to be made, and that was the change that was made, and it stopped there. The more income you have, the more you can afford to pay. 70% of Bradford pay school taxes based on income, and other percentages in other towns. It’s a confusing system, but it’s a hybrid that is based on both income and property. People are not proposing the alternatives, while happily throwing stones.

A: Chip: Happy to consider income tax as source. Number of reasons why that may not work so well: easier to hide income than to hide your property. But whichever way it’s done, we need to figure out how to slow the rate of cost growth. Switching revenue source may make some difference to some people,, but without addressing the cost growth, it still has to come from somewhere.

Act 60 & 68 not totally broken. Can have a system that’s completely fair or completely simple, but can’t have both. So we’ve moved toward totally fair, but that makes it confusing, so people don’t trust it.

A: Phil: I think it’s broken and could carry on for 10 minutes.

Closing Remarks:

Chip: I plan to continue to keep the people in my district in mind. i do appreciate so much where I live, and like it very much the way it is. I want to work to make sure people can continue to live there, and to have the good life that they have there.

Phil: I think the fact that the current problems we’re having indicates that we didn’t do a good job of managing our job when we had money. I know it’s hard to say no when you have a dollar in your pocket. As has been pointed out, major dollars are education and human services. When talking about human services, you are indeed affecting people. To those who would say we cannot get into the human services, I think we should look back and remember the years when we thought we’d be short on LIHEAP and we heard people say people will freeze to death in their homes. Even if we make substantial cuts, I’m not at all convinced that we’ll see people who need our help sitting on the street corner. So I’ll go back & start work on the budget.

Susan: Will look at ways to reduce recidivism. It’s costly to keep people in prison. We can[‘t keep putting people in prison when it costs less to keep them out. Closure of Chelsea court and courthouse – will try to keep eyes on that, and look at the costs being shifted onto our communities as a result of these state cuts. We may not have any better support structure at local level to make up for these cuts.

Matt: Bring perspective of worker, younger generation who goes out of state. I appreciate my roots and community. You’ll have the opportunity to vote on whether or not I did a good job in November. I will work on agriculture and healthcare. Will really try to make something that saves on health care. I think we’re very close.

Sarah: What do these cuts mean? We’ve talked in general terms and I want to say, a lot of these final 21 mil in cuts (and some already made) will impact people’s ability to live with dignity, live in their communities. Some cuts will create immediate increases. For example, home health cuts will push people into nursing homes, which costs much more than if they stayed home. When you cut developmental disability services, that makes it harder for parent to work. In 2 parent family, 1 will have to cut hours or stop working to stay with child. That has terrible impacts on these families. These are services the state has provided with fed funding, and this is the kind of cuts we’re looking at. You have to put a human face on those cuts in order to do that with a good conscience. “By the time we get done here, everyone is going to hate us.” and this is why. I hear frustration about taxes and school funding. This is the human face.

I will continue to hold meetings like this, make a rotating circuit between school and select boards, and will continue to write in JO.

I will continue to answer your questions in person. Grab me where you find me, ask a question. I will be happy to answer. I’m also happy to answer emails.