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Yes, Shay Totten just called me and Euan (NanuqFC) liars in Seven Days...

by: odum

Thu Jun 25, 2009 at 08:24:05 AM EDT


...and no, I can't say with any certainty why. From his column this week:

So who started the GMD rumor? GMD bloggers?

The line refers first to the buzz that Senator Ed Flanagan was eyeing a Lieutenant Governor's race. Totten continues from there, euphemistically piling onto the other rumors mentioned on this site - that Dubie is considering not running and Barre Mayor Lauzon is considering running in his stead, that former Vermont CARES Director Tim Palmer is considering a run - with phrases like "aren't entirely accurate" and the like.

In an unhappy email exchange with Mr. Totten over the matter, he simply avoided the matter with a mocking insistence that he hadn't actually used the l-word. Honestly, one of the last things I care to engage in since I've become a grown-up is strange, petty little word-parsing games. Totten sent a thesis message loud and clear: Euan and I (and by extension everyone on the site?) just make shit up. He went on to present his supporting "evidence."

Obviously, I'll let Euan respond herself, but for my part, a response to such an outrageous charge is clearly called for.

odum :: Yes, Shay Totten just called me and Euan (NanuqFC) liars in Seven Days...
Everyone here at GMD - or any other comparable, equally masochistic I-don't-get-paid-for-this-so-why-do-I-put-myself-through-it hobby - have different motivations. For me, I realized recently that I have a deep, primal loathing of bullies. More often than not, GMD has been my way to stand up to the bullies and sometimes - if I'm very lucky - get them to back down.

But regardless of our individual motivations, we take this very seriously.

When I go up with a rumor, I'm clear about it. I characterize it as "rumor" or "buzz" or "hubbub" to be clear that's what I'm talking about. If I feel even more solid, I won't label it at all. I consider it reportable if I hear it from three different sources - or if I get it from a source that I consider super-credible. On the Lauzon/Dubie issue, I was not the first front pager to hear that statehouse rumor - but I did get it's veracity confirmed by one of those super-credible sources. With Palmer as well, I wasn't the only front pager who was aware of the rumor, but I did get it confirmed from a credible source who had, in fact, heard it from the source. The Flanagan buzz came from Euan first (I only posted it before she did because she wasn't near a computer and put it out there for the group to post), and she has revealed that her sources were, again, super-credible. Euan, of course, is a former editor of the late publication Out in the Mountains, so suggesting she is making things up in print is even more outrageous.

Seriously, folks. We've been around for years, now. Our information almost always pans out, and if something doesn't add up, we come out and say so.

In this case yesterday, Totten's column spurred a flurry of emails among front pagers. After another round of laying out of the sources of the collected buzz to each other, the suggestion was made that we return to these sources and push to get them on the record. But these sources - and others - only passed along the information with the understanding that they wouldn't be connected to it. If we go running to them and lean on them to give more just because a bully is kicking sand in our faces, we will simply lose their confidence in the future - and rightfully so.

Here's the thing; Totten is no political novice. He knows how rumors work. They wouldn't be "rumors" if the subjects were prepared to go public. They would be headlines. When he asks, they dodge - naturally. To use this as evidence to an accusation of lying is bizarre. He knows how it works. He chose to pretend he doesn't in order to perpetuate a smear to tens of thousands of his readers.

As to the claim that he didn't actually use the word "liar," well, he's also a professional writer, and no amount of smug word-parsing changes the message that he very specifically and intentionally communicated.

As I said, I can't say why Totten would smear us in print like this. Yes, there is some personal history there, including a breach of personal trust on a pretty spectacular scale (especially when you consider that a journalist deals in the currency of trust and confidentiality). Perhaps a story that will get told one day.

But let's be serious. GMD has thousands of weekly readers, Totten has tens of thousands. GMD is a completely amateur, volunteer-driven labor of love, Totten works for a professional operation. Euan and I are those dreaded pesky bloggers, sitting around doing this in front of the TV (okay, Euan was also a professional journalist - an editor, even), while Totten is the serious professional and expert.

The other little irony here is this: Totten seems to have gotten himself into a bit of a pot/kettle, "glass houses" position. Last month Seven Days ran a very long article about Ed Flanagan in the Senate, and whether he is too disabled to serve based on the sequelae of his motor vehicle accidents. They caught some heat for that article, not least because it was, shall we say, very lightly sourced. They had their reasons for running the story they ran, even without sources willing to go on the record, and they're entitled to use their news judgment for that.

But that's what we do, too. We report the facts we have, we report on the buzz when in our judgment the buzz is a legitimate news story, and the result is that GMD is recognized nationally as required reading for people who want to know what's happening in Vermont politics.

So we bug him. Or at least we do from time to time. Fair enough. We bug a lot of people. It's what we do.

But choosing to sink to the level of bully? That's low. And it should be beneath him.

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I've written a letter to 7D... (4.00 / 1)
... calling for Totten to apologize. I hope others will do the same. I also turned in a ballot for Seven Daysies, voting for GMD and otherwise leaving it blank. (That's not a statement, I just don't give a damn who's the best Brunch Spot or Florist.)  

Who is Shay Totten? Enough said... n/t (0.00 / 0)


Boo Hoo (1.60 / 5)
"For me, I realized recently that I have a deep, primal loathing of bullies."

Are you trying to be ironic?  This site is full of bullies, many of them front-pagers.

Commence troll-rating.


Here's Charity (3.00 / 3)
playing the victim again.
And why not? She has it down to a science.

Attn. Cathy Resmer: My real name is Eddie Garcia, and I live in St. J.

[ Parent ]
Well... (3.00 / 3)
Kinda goes with being conservative, you know, that "not getting how the world changes" thing. If it weren't for the perpetual victimhood, they'd lose half of the 20% they got left.

You can read more of JD Ryan at five before chaos. But why would you want to?

[ Parent ]
Get a dictionary (0.00 / 0)
Wrong! The essential component of bullying is an unbalanced power dynamic. In media terms, Totten has big advantages in size of platform and readership. Whether or not he'll ever be as respected as Peter Freyne, he does occupy one of the highest-profile positions in Vermont political journalism. In this case, he is misusing that position to pick on someone who's not his own size.

GMD is a widely-read blog, but that's still a lower perch on the media ladder. GMD posts can certainly be opinionated and sarcastic as well as informative and entertaining -- that's what a blog is for, after all. But bullying? Definitionally impossible.  


[ Parent ]
Now... (0.00 / 0)
...you've got a 1, Charity--you are not a troll.

[ Parent ]
So? (4.00 / 1)
Who actually reads 7D post-Freyne, anyway?

-M

When I heard about this... (0.00 / 0)
...I had to go searching for the blog post about it.  It took me some time, too.

juliewaters.com

[ Parent ]
Not a blog post (4.00 / 1)
The print column. That's a much bigger deal.

undercaffeinated

[ Parent ]
Okay, that explains it. (0.00 / 0)
I was looking for a blog entry.

juliewaters.com

[ Parent ]
There's a link in the diary, if you're still looking. n/t (0.00 / 0)


undercaffeinated

[ Parent ]
Sorry, I should have been more clear (0.00 / 0)
when you first mentioned this to me, I had trouble finding it.  I eventually did, and thought "wow.  Shay's more pathetic than I'd realized."  But it wasn't until you mentioned it here that I realized it was a print edition.  I had been looking on the blog itself to find it, which is part of what tripped me up.

juliewaters.com

[ Parent ]
Small deal (0.00 / 0)
The print edition reaches a much smaller audience.  I suppose it does reach the Chit. Cty and Montpelier politicos, though, and that may be a big enough deal.  But down here below Route 4, we don't see the print edition often.  Well, ever.

-M

[ Parent ]
"New' Journalism? (4.00 / 2)
Jeez.  Used to be, when I was in MSM you had 'reliable sources' for info you so you could frame it:  "Reliable sources said a Joe Blow bid for Lt. Janitor is definitely in the wind."  Something like that.  No biggie.  Sources sometimes don't want to be identified or quoted.  So Joe Blow says the next day that it's all news to him.  Part of the 'reporting' game.   I didn't know it had become 'sacred' to go by what Joe Blow, the politician says.  Your info will probably all turn out to be correct, one way or another, later on.  Election bids are open for speculation.  To say they are not, or that 'rumors' from 'sources' need to be verified by Joe Blow before publication sounds a little bit anal to me.  Also, didn't Freyne have a 'grapevine' at the Statehouse he oft times referred to as a 'source' for blurbs in his column?  Doesn't Shay do that too?  Come on.  Maybe he just doesn't like being 'scooped' by the amateurs--his 'domain' etc..  Silly.  Hope you folks here at GMD break Vermont's first 'sex' scandal--make sure you get attribution on that one, or you'll really 'upset' folks.

Just read Totten's article ... (4.00 / 1)
I couldn't find anything even implying anybody was a liar.

It's about community ... RAMABAHAMA DOT NET (only it is still under construction ... isn't that life?)

LOL (0.00 / 0)
I'm shocked.

undercaffeinated

[ Parent ]
Instead of being "schocked" ... (2.67 / 3)
how about a quote of the line(s) you think called you a liar?

It's about community ... RAMABAHAMA DOT NET (only it is still under construction ... isn't that life?)

[ Parent ]
Havent you figured out by now... (1.67 / 3)
... that I'm bored with your weird little harassment games? Life is way too short.

Here...



undercaffeinated


[ Parent ]
So you don't have anything to support your assertion ... (2.67 / 3)
why didn't you just say so in the firs place?

It's about community ... RAMABAHAMA DOT NET (only it is still under construction ... isn't that life?)

[ Parent ]
The part highlighted in the green block in the post (0.00 / 0)
... is the part where Shay implies GMD bloggers made up the rumor.

Stating that someone made something up is a direct implication that they lied.

The big green-boxed quote in the middle of the post supports the assertion without any need for any further elaboration.

Beware the Everyday Brutality of the Averted Gaze


[ Parent ]
Except ... (2.33 / 3)
Totten explains how he went looking for verification, and then not being able to find any himself (including, apparently, in the posts on this blog) asked a very common sense and plain and simple question.

Context ... helps to put meaning in words.

Would you have Totten mindlessly repeat what is posted here? Would that be good reporting? I certainly don't believe so.

Now let's follow this up ... where did Totten state that anybody made anything up?

Here's the link, all you need to do is show me ... I'm open.

It's about community ... RAMABAHAMA DOT NET (only it is still under construction ... isn't that life?)


[ Parent ]
So Jack McCullough is into ratings abuse ... (2.00 / 2)
Jack, instead of dissing me for looking for evidence, why don't expect Odum to stand up and support his contentions?

It's about community ... RAMABAHAMA DOT NET (only it is still under construction ... isn't that life?)

[ Parent ]
No. (0.00 / 0)
Funnily enough, I ordinarily expect our readers to have some passing familiarity with the English language. Since I know you do, I can only assume that you are deliberately pretending not to understand the plain import of the suggestion in Totten's column that the bloggers at GMD have been "making up" our news stories.
If you consider having your posts judged based on what you write to be ratings abuse, feel free to call it whatever you want.

[ Parent ]
Okay then ... (2.00 / 2)
I'll ask of you what I ask of Odum (and he chose not to answer): how about a quote of the line(s) you think called Odum a liar?

It's about community ... RAMABAHAMA DOT NET (only it is still under construction ... isn't that life?)

[ Parent ]
You're not that stupid. n/t (1.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
Neither of us is stupid, Jack ... (1.75 / 4)
so I don't know why you're driving down this road.

I also am totally stumped as to why you adamantly refuse to just quote something from Totten's column that you believe called anybody a liar.

I gotta tell you Jack, for the life of me I cannot find "the plain import of the suggestion in Totten's column that the bloggers at GMD have been "making up" our news stories."

And I've re-read that damned column four times now.

***sigh*** Forget it.

It's about community ... RAMABAHAMA DOT NET (only it is still under construction ... isn't that life?)


[ Parent ]
Yup ... Jack M out abusing ratings again (1.33 / 3)


It's about community ... RAMABAHAMA DOT NET (only it is still under construction ... isn't that life?)

[ Parent ]
I stand by the story and the sources n/t (0.00 / 0)


Well; (0.00 / 0)
That's good enough for me!

[ Parent ]
That's great, and I'm glad you do ... (3.50 / 2)
but this thread was started by Odum making an obviously fatuous claim based upon taking one sentence out of any context and tacking on the meaning of his choice.

Nobody has accused you of passing on inaccurate information. Nobody has called you a liar. Your claims were simply questioned.

(This thread should also be about Odum and what he calls bullying, because a favorite tactic of his is to try and "shout" people down with graphics intended to do nothing but demean and insult ... in a fashion reminiscent of the bullies I used to face down in the school yard.)

I have no reason to doubt you heard what you say you heard, and I have no reason to think Totten was calling anybody a liar.

In closing, Nanuq, I'll ask you a question: do you believe Totten should just take your word without question?

It's about community ... RAMABAHAMA DOT NET (only it is still under construction ... isn't that life?)


[ Parent ]
Over-reaction (4.00 / 1)
Let's just start with the simple fact that Flanagan didn't say that he won't run.

My experience with him is that he has no ethics and no compunction about pulling the rug out from otherwise deserving individuals.

So, its quite possible that he was the source of the "rumor" in the first place to float the idea.  And, it wouldn't surprise me that he won't own up to it.

Now I know from other interaction that Odum has a very thin skin when it comes to this blog.  Not that I blame him, he puts himself out there for others to criticize freely.  I respect him for that.

On balance, I'd say that the 7 Days post was good for GMD and will lead to more people looking to see what's said.

Time will tell about the Flanagan angle.  Just one more reason to hope he doesn't run.

PJ  


Doesn't feel like an overreaction from this end. (3.00 / 2)
I still go slack jawed when I think about it. It never would have occurred to me to post something accusing Shay of making things up. Even when I was pissed at Freyne for seeming to report the way he wanted things to be rather than what they were regarding the last gubernatorial race, I said he was bending things - not making them up wholesale.

I just can't believe it. It's a small state and I know a lot of the people he knows. Why was he motivated to do that, especially since the non-denial-denials from his subjects do nothing to discredit the rumors, frankly - even though he presents it as though they do?

It's definitely been one of those "why do I bother with this crap" weeks.

undercaffeinated


[ Parent ]
c'mon now - - (3.00 / 1)
Odum - - I think you lack a certain perspective on this.  Not surprising because you are in the middle of it all and it is hard to have perspective on oneself.

My take is that most people who read Shay's thing only think he said that the rumor may have started at GMD.  Now, the "rumor" may very well be proven to be true.  Certainly Flanagan didn't rule out the possibility of running.  In that event, all that happened is that the "GMD bloggers" that Shay referred to will be proven to have scooped the story.

Can't prove the negative however - - i.e. - that he was considering running (as "rumored") but later changed his mind.

In any event, nobody was called a liar.  And Shay may find he holds the short end of the stick if Mr. F decides to actually run.

PJ


[ Parent ]
I appreciated your first comment, but... (1.00 / 1)
...I'm not sure what you hope to gain by ratcheting it up into a full-on argument.

Shay put out a thesis that what I and another front pager reported was not, in fact, a report, but is something we concocted.

I really couldn't care less what you want to call it. I prefer not to sugar coat.

I also, in all my disputes with reporters - Freyne, Hallenbeck, etc - never suggested that they were fabricating material. In fact, it hasn't occurred to me to make the suggestion, as it would seem to be about the worst possible charge you could make to a journalist, either professional or "citizen."

So, "c'mon now" yourself.

undercaffeinated


[ Parent ]
It really is silly ... (3.50 / 2)
In all this thread absolutely nobody has bothered to present a quote that shows where Totten called anybody here a liar. On the other hand various folks have spent time and effort trying their best to shut down discussion as to whether or not Odum's allegation has any legitimacy.

Anyway ... I'm still waiting for the quote ... anybody got one?

It's about community ... RAMABAHAMA DOT NET (only it is still under construction ... isn't that life?)


... (0.50 / 2)


undercaffeinated

[ Parent ]
If this keeps up, Shay... (0.00 / 0)
...has another piece of his column for this week.   Hey, Shay, remember I posted it first here on GMD--Champ's going to run for Gov. next year.  And it's not a rumor.  I went to a 'homespun' party for Broadsides, and along with the horses and dogs and cats and kiddies, there was Champ, sitting on a log, sipping some of whatever mellow-brew Michael's been drinking lately, and he told me:  "Petey, this is official, not a rumor. Do you think I can win?"  And I sehs:  "Champster, it all depends on how much ink you get in Seven Days.  I'll do my best.'  "Just don't misquote me, Petey.  If you do, I'll deny ever having talked to you."  "Don't worry, dude," I sehs,  "and stop drinking that mellow shit, or Douglas will walk all over ya."  "Just don't misquote me, Petey.  Remember, I'm a Monster."

I don't think you folks should argue this point any more.  You're letting the MSM jerk your chain.


Flannagan Just Announced (4.00 / 1)
He's running: http://www.burlingtonfreepress...

Darn GMD and its prescient rumors! What's the big idea making up stuff and being right about it? Oh, wait, the story was sourced, and wasn't a rumor? Well, never mind....

Beware the Everyday Brutality of the Averted Gaze


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