Occupation Project targets Sanders office

The perfect is the enemy of the good (0.00 / 0)

I feel fairly safe in asserting that no one here supports this president or this war.
However, consider this:

Having blown the dust from Washington by starting the Congressional session with the Hundred Hours plan, Democrats felt (rightly) that they had to make a stand on the most important issue before them, Iraq.  In doing so, the party -- and particularly Speaker Pelosi -- put a huge amount of hard-won momentum on the line.  You better believe that every newsroom in the country already had their "Democrats in Disarray" headlines laid out.

There's little doubt that Bush will veto the bill.  But by doing so, he will become the one delaying funds from reaching the troops.  It will be Bush who is putting his personal pettiness and ego, over the needs of forces in the field.

In any case, getting this bill to this point was vitally important.  Democrats showed an ability to forge a position with input from the whole spectrum of their members, and to move that agenda forward.  Republicans showed themselves helpless tools to Bush's intransigence.  And the sweet irony is that a bill many regarded as too weak to help, may be just the medicine needed to move us closer to the end of this insanity.

Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.

---

by: kestrel9000 @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 03:32:30 AM CDT

I have mixed feelings... (0.00 / 0)

I really have mixed feelings about all of this; it's ideals vs. political realities. The political reality is, funding or not, Bush is not going to sign anything that ends the war, and we are nowhere near having a veto-proof majority. An immediate withdrawal is somewhat unrealistic, given the circumstances, and if the bill was to cut off funding, the GOP knows how to spin that one really well against the Dems. As the bill stands now, my big problem is it sets the date too far into the future, I'd rather see a date sometime this year. Also, as it stands now, when Bush vetoes, the Dems can use the 'refusing to fund troops' argument against Bush. And, like many have pointed out, if it passes both chambers, it's at least finally putting a record out there of ending the war, and the next bill can be even stricter.

I guess I really view it as pretty hopeless as long as Bush is in there, so which way Bernie votes isn't going to really make a difference in ending the war now. As long as Bush is in charge, we are never going to 'end the war' now. I think that's the tragic political reality in all of this. I guess that's why I'm so divided about this bill.

---

by: JDRyan @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 07:46:23 AM CDT

Okay (0.00 / 0)

I agree with all of that; I feel the same way you do about the sup, basically.
But lemme ask you this:
What was the point of what went on at Welch's Burlington office? Those staffers were nice as pie to the protestors, gave em cookies and treated them like constituents, as they deserved to be treated.
That was all good, fine, and commendable.
But as to those who refused to leave at closing time, what did their getting arrested accomplish?
Showboating?
Congratulations, guys, you made the freep.
But what did that accomplish?
Increasing awareness? Awareness of what?
You want to fuckin' protest? Go protest Douglas and tel him to bring our goddamn Guardsmen home. Vermont has lost more people per capita in this fucked up war than any other state.
I know, why not go bust on Bernie Sanders' staffers while he's in DC(I assume.)? Maybe they'll have free cookies too. Arrests are scheduled for 6pm. Reserve your seats now.
Yeah, that's gonna stop the fuckin' war.

Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.

---

by: kestrel9000 @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 08:53:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm inclined to agree with you,,, (0.00 / 0)

Regardless of how he voted, I think Welch's office did treat them with a lot more respect than other congress people would. Many would just ignore them and have them removed.

Like I said, I have mixed feelings. Sure the arrests drew attention, but one needs to ask, to what? The occupation of the office served that purpose, didn't it? And for that, I think it served its purpose well, as will the Bernie event.

  Often, I think these arrests dilute the message, in that it all of a sudden becomes about the individual, not the issue anymore. If they were somehow viewing it as a form of blackmail (in that Welch has to agree with them or they will not leave), well, I think that it's quite stupid. And let me be clear, I'm in no way saying that civil disobedience and getting arrested is always a bad idea. It's just that sometimes, it's not used wisely, so you have people that make it a lifestyle, and they eventually stop being taken seriously by all but the few who agree with them uncritically. That said, I still believe they have the right to do it. I'm not going to agree with them that they're actually accomplishing anything in every case, ESPECIALLY when they like to turn around use it as an example of how they are somehow superior and more 'pure' than those of us who agree but choose not to go that route. That's my biggest problem with a lot of it,actually. I'm still showing them  respect, I don't see why that shouldn't be reciprocated.

  And like I said, this particular issue is quite confusing... many people who want the war to end do support this bill because it is the first one to put a timeline to it. It's never going to satisfy the all-or-nothing crowd. What I have a problem with is that crowd attacking those on our side that DO agree about ending the war, but somehow we're not ideologically pure enough, not moving fast enough, so we're no different than the real enemy. The smart thing is to respectfully disagree and direct the nasty anger where it really belongs, towards Bush and the GOP who are really digging in their heels, because ultimately Bush and the GOP are still the ones holding the power to end this thing. Every Dem could vote to end the war tomorrow, and it still won't amount to a hill of beans, as long as Bush has the keys to the Lamborghini (this is where kestrel9000 responds with a photoshopped picture of Bush standing next to a Lamborghini with some keys in his hand - Don't let me down, Ed.)

---

by: JDRyan @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 09:43:17 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Best I can do (0.00 / 0)

since I can't do photoshop.

Why the Jackson 5?
Long story.

Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.

---

by: kestrel9000 @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 10:45:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hhhmmm.... (4.00 / 1)

My opinion of these kinds of things (office sits-ins/direct action arrests), in addition to demonstrating to the elected officials that part of their constituency is just THAT passionate about the issue (which, at least here, they do pay attention to) is mostly to make the bigger moral statement that _____(insert issue here) is of such importance that I/we don't care if I/we are breaking the law and get arrested if that's what it takes to bring this to the forefront and demonstrate our convictions on the matter.

As the Iraq war was just getting going, I was a part of a group of folks doing almost weekly direct action/civil disobedience in protest.  One of those actions we took was a simultaneous occupation of Leahy & Jeffords' offices.  As I recall, Leahy was on the phone with us for well over 30 minutes and was listening, at least.  Jeffords spent about 5 minutes on the phone and clearly was annoyed that we existed.  Interestingly enough, though these actions were planned in secret, Jeffords' staff greeted folks with "oh, you're the protesters we've been expecting; we've got fresh cookies for you and coffee should be ready soon...."

It was the same thing as with Welch- folks were 'arrested' and told to come back the next day to get their citations (which is utter bullshit- that's not how anyone gets arrested, ever).  The Burlington PD have a pretty strict policy to do whatever they can to NOT arrest protesters because they know that it only eggs (some of us) on to escalate tactics while also dragging the media into it.  Yes, DRAGGING the media- because I bet no one here read about those office occupations in the Free Press 4 years ago- the Freeps put a total news blackout on everything we did.*

This all said, at the end of the day I don't see these things ending any wars or stopping the next one.  When we did the office occupations 4 years ago the demand was that they not support funding the war (who recalls how our Senator's voted for that first round of funding a clearly illegal war?).  That all said, anything is better than nothing, and the more of SOMETHING the better as well.  Democrats, Republicans, Progressives, Socialists, whoever; no one should be off limits when it comes to people protesting against what we know to be wrong.

*Side note on the 2004 'war' between the Burlington Free Press and our rag-tag bunch of trouble-makers: though the Freeps did successfully ignore almost everything we did, we got the last word in when someone clandestinely got an anti-war leaflet inserted in almost every paper that went out one day.  And no, there was no press coverage of that one either!

-In America the people fear their government; in France, it is the government that fears the people

www.integralpsychosis.com

---

by: wdh3 @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 19:14:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Call Bernie 800-339-9834 (4.00 / 1)

Well, I'm not willing to get arrested to further someone's future political career.  A mass Be-In at Douglas' office is a better way of getting Welch's and Bernie's attention, and putting Vt. Republicans 'soft' on the War in the '08 headlights.

But we should all call Sanders' office this afternoon:

800-339-0834
802-862-0697

---

by: PeteySweety @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 10:46:11 AM CDT

Douglas... (4.00 / 1)

This is the second time you've mentioned it, Pete...any plans to make it happen? I'm sure you'd have quite a few people interested. It's a good idea.

---

by: JDRyan @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 10:55:05 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

day dreaming (0.00 / 0)

that: half of Vermont refuses to pay their Vermont income taxes until the Vermont National Guard is back in state.

---

by: jane @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 12:17:26 PM CDT